Zelda Conspiracy!

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Tyrfillich
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Zelda Conspiracy!

Post by Tyrfillich » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:37 pm

I know, the name sounds a bit trollish, but hear me out... :P

A friend and I were sitting here talking about the upcoming Zelda game Skyward Sword and realised a wealth of information that could, if used properly, tie together most of the series and make for the most epic Zelda game EVAR - if only Nintendo are doing it this way.... :-D

So, here's what you know - Skyward Sword is set chronologically before Ocarina of Time, as it's a direct prequel. It deals mainly with the Master Sword and how it came to wind up in the Temple of Time.

Here's the stuff we cottoned on to....

MindBlow #1:
#> Skyward Sword is set approximately 100 years before the events of OoT.
#> The Hylian War, as referenced in OoT, took place 100 years before the events of OoT.
#> Igos Du Ikana of Majora's Mask references a "great war with a mighty nation" about 100 years before the events of MM.
#> In OoT, lingering around Hyrule Field at night means getting attacked by Stalchildren; and killing enough of them consecutively leads to a fight against a giant Stalchild. In MM you learn that Stalchildren are the undead remains of Terminian soldiers; led by Captain Keeta who is a giant Stalchild.
#> After defeating Captain Keeta in his race event, he gives you the Captain's Hat and asks you to tell his men "that the war is over".

So we can safely assume that 100 years ago, Hyrule was at war with Termina.


MindBlow #2:
#> Skyward Sword is chronologically set before Ocarina of Time.
#> OoT is set chronologically after and was directly inspired by A Link To The Past.
#> ALTTP's World Map is surrounded by cloud on all four sides; even when fully uncovered.
#> Skyward Sword's teaser details show that the Master Sword may originate from the mysterious "Sky Isle".
#> The first game to feature the Master Sword was ALTTP.

So we can see it's quite possible that the "Sky Isle" is the Hyrule of ALTTP.


MindBlow #3:
#> Skyward Sword tells the tale of a kingdom neighbouring Hyrule.
#> Termina is a kingdom neighbouring (or at least near) Hyrule.
#> The World Map of Termina in Majora's Mask bears a striking resemblance to the World Map of Hyrule in ALTTP (grab a picture of the ALTTP map, rotate it 45 degrees CCW and imagine Death Mountain covered in snow).
#> Both Igos Du Ikana and the Goron Elder mention a time past when "things were brighter".
#> During the First Day, many of the townspeople say things along the lines of "Is it just me or is the moon a little bit bigger?", implying the moon is almost that size normally (or perhaps they're closer to it?)


So it's possible that the world of ALTTP became Termina as it aged.


MindBlow #4:

#> In OoT we are introduced to the Happy Mask Salesman, who is more than a little creepy.
#> In OoT he is selling masks with supernatural but useless effects (scaring people, enchanting kids etc)
#> In Majora's Mask he is trying to recover the titular doom artefact; which he seems to know an awful lot about considering it belonged to a tribe that is EXTINCT.
#> In Twilight Princess we are introduced to the Fused Shadow; a doom artefact created by a long-extinct tribe that, when fully assembled, forms a helmet and mask.


Very safe to assume that Majora's Mask and the Fused Shadow were created by the same magic-abusing evildoers.


MindBlow #5:

#> In Skyward Sword, the floating continent above Hyrule is quite shiny and technologically advanced (compared to the rest of Hyrule); and all their tech revolves around clockwork.
#> In Majora's Mask, Termina is technologically advanced but most machines are either within ruins or in obvious disrepair. All the mechanics in Termina revolve around clockwork.
#> In Twilight Princess we have the City In The Sky, a dungeon that is floating above Hyrule. It's technologically advanced but is crumbling from sheer age. All of the tech revolves around clockwork.

Considering the chronological series is Skyward Sword, Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, with a hundred years between each one, it's fair to say that these locations are one and the same, only at different intervals in time.


Coincidental Facts:

#> Oocca's facial features and complexion (of her face anyway) bear a strong resemblance to the Happy Mask Salesman.
#> The Hero who trains Link in Twilight Princess needs to be summoned while Link is in his cursed wolf form. All of the summon stones whistle songs from Majora's Mask.
#> A Link To The Past states that seven sages sealed Ganondorf away; as does the end of Ocarina of Time. In one timeline he breaks free and wreaks havoc, the other he is trapped and must work through another (Agahnim in ALTTP, Zant in TP). In the latter case he *does* get free, but only long enough to get killed by our zesty green hero - wielding the Master Sword.


Worth discussing, gentlemen?

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Kefka
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Re: Zelda Conspiracy!

Post by Kefka » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:53 pm

EDIT: okay. I have read it and am not even suprised. I have played only a bit of Twilight Princess (wii) and Ocarina of Time (n64 rom), i do have played A Link to the Past (snes) and the three older ones (nes, nes and gb). And it is always a neverending quest to save the princess (anyone remember Xander from Drawn Together?)
Like the Secret of Mana quote; "Time flows like a river and history repeats"

question; How would you fit in the older versions in the timeline of Zelda?



I think that Link's Awakening would not fit in at all, since it is actually an RPG game version of the movie Inception.
The other day, I finally got round to watching the critically acclaimed film Inception. If you have not seen the film, and you intend to watch it sometime, then stop reading now! Assuming you have seen the film, you will know about it's fairly complex plot about dreams, dreams within dreams, and the human subconscious. After watching the film, I started to think about the one Legend of Zelda game that is based on dreams - that is, The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening.

After all, the island of Koholint is not actually real. It's a dream world that Link must battle his way through in order to stop the Nightmare bosses and wake the Wind Fish. Drawing upon the concepts we find in Inception, there are some interesting things we can infer about Link's Awakening. This is not to say that those inferences are actually necessarily true. Inception is, obviously, extremely different to Link's Awakening. Link doesn't have access to any special dreaming technology, and he presumably does not even know he is dreaming . However, I think it would be quite fun to explore these themes regardless!

Inception is all about dreams and, bizarrely, dreams within dreams. The film gets increasingly more complex, and clever, as the characters engage in more and more layers of dreams and sub-dreams. And this practise is evident in Link's Awakening! Obviously, Link is within one single dream in his adventures in Koholint, but the exception to this is the mysterious Dream Shrine. Inside the small hut in Mabe Village, Link jumps into a bed and is sent into another dream in a ritualistic fashion. Even more interesting is the relationship exhibited by the sub-dream of the Dream Shrine and the first dream: Link obtained the Ocarina in the Dream Shrine, and he still has it when he wakes up in Koholint.

Another interesting idea in Inception is that if you die during your dream, you will wake up. But you actually have to die - even being severely injured is not enough to wake up. Similarly in Link's Awakening, whether it be a pinch from a Toronbo Shores crab or sword slash from a Moblin, physical damage will not wake up Link if it merely hurts him, though we don't see what happens after Link dies either (there is no game over ending where Link wakes up after dying in Koholint to find the Nightmares reigning supreme). Though it is also apparently possible to drop into a deep state of unconsciousness when you are killed in a dream, a state of 'limbo' which you cannot awaken from for at least a long time - perhaps this is what happens in Link's Awakening.

In Inception, time also flows differently in dreams. Because the mind is working more efficiently when you dream, a seemingly long time spent in a dream actually translates to a comparatively much shorter time in the real world. This is consistent with Link's Awakening, since Link has loads of stuff to do in Koholint, and surely if he spent ages unconscious floating in the sea, he would risk death by drowning, starvation or dehydration, being eaten by a sea creature, and so on.

The special technology in Inception allows you to enter the dreams of other people. When Link was dreaming about Koholint, was he actually in his own dream, or was he an intruder in the dream of the Wind Fish? Or was there simply one whole dream 'world'? Also, Inception's main theme is about an idea of the same name. To achieve 'inception', an idea must be planted into somebody's mind in a fashion that makes the subject believe the idea was their own. Essentially, it is creating a false illusion of inspiration. On the other hand, in Link's Awakening, reality and the dream world are not separate. As Link awakens at the end of the game, he not only sees the Wind Fish, but if you got the special ending, it is implied that Marin somehow escaped the dream world and came into reality.

This (somewhat crude) comparison between Inception and Link's Awakening might be a bit mad, but I would like to remind you that it has been more for fun than anything else. Besides, perhaps looking at how dreams 'work' can, if anything, open up new possibilities for Zelda theorists to bicker over.

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Re: Zelda Conspiracy!

Post by DeadWolf » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:26 pm

I believe in the split timeline. For me to even explain it would take way too much time and I doubt anyone would read it. If you're really interested in what I think there are some videos by a guy who pretty much believes in the same theory I do.

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Tyrfillich
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Re: Zelda Conspiracy!

Post by Tyrfillich » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:25 am

Deadwolf, I'm a believer in the split timeline thing as well. But we both know Nintendo can't resist peppering their games with hints and throwbacks - and a game designed to address both timelines would be nigh-impossible to resist. They know it, and so do us Zelda fans :D

I was actually writing a Zelda fic to tie the two together actually. I gave up a few chapters into it simply because there wasn't nearly as much interest as I thought there would be...

Personally, I'd like to see an explanation into the Happy Mask Salesman. That guy knows far too much to be a normal Hylian.

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Re: Zelda Conspiracy!

Post by Dr. Sheexy » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:28 am

That's interesting thoughts for sure, and I'm not very big on all the details considering I only own two Zelda games (ALttP and WW), but I was under the impression that Majora's Mask was some kind of weird parallel dimension type thing. Isn't that how they explained away why everyone looked so similar?

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Re: Zelda Conspiracy!

Post by Tyrfillich » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:44 pm

It is, but then how do you explain the Skull Kid that Link had met in the last game making his way there?

Hm. Come to think of it, how the hell did Tingle get from Majora's Mask to Wind Waker? Those are opposing timelines! If anything he should have been in Twilight Princess...

Maybe Tingle and the Salesman, the two creepiest Zelda characters are in cahoots...

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Re: Zelda Conspiracy!

Post by Kefka » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:15 pm

One thing is sure... the developers have been thinking about the timeline of these games. Due to this post i am totally convinced that all Zelda games are alligned in a specific time-line.

But time flows like a river, and history repeats.

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Re: Zelda Conspiracy!

Post by Zable Fahr » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:43 am

Tyrfillich wrote:Hm. Come to think of it, how the hell did Tingle get from Majora's Mask to Wind Waker? Those are opposing timelines! If anything he should have been in Twilight Princess....
I'm pretty sure the Tingle of the past isn't the same tingle there... Unless.. he really is a fairy....... And stayed 35 years old for ever... ewe
Still, you gotta remember. He was also in 4 Swords Adventures; and in Japan, he had his own game.. which I'm not all too familiar with. Still, maybe the game ties up the stories..? :X -shrugs-

My brother said something about Mr.Miyamoto already having the stories all tired up; but just being a "jerk" and not releasing it to the general public yet ... XD

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Re: Zelda Conspiracy!

Post by bastian » Wed May 04, 2011 7:42 am

[quote="Tyrfillich"]I know, the name sounds a bit trollish, but hear me out... :P

A friend and I were sitting here talking about the upcoming Zelda game Skyward Sword and realised a wealth of information that could, if used properly, tie together most of the series and make for the most epic Zelda game EVAR - if only Nintendo are doing it this way.... :-D

So, here's what you know - Skyward Sword is set chronologically before Ocarina of Time, as it's a direct prequel. It deals mainly with the Master Sword and how it came to wind up in the Temple of Time.

Here's the stuff we cottoned on to....

MindBlow #1: Termina is an alternate reality version of Hyrule. They're not even in the same "world."


MindBlow #2: The coulds surrounding Hyrule on the MAP are just a way of showing that those areas have not been traveled by you yet, proven by the fact that the entire map is clouds at first, until you visit each area. Hyrule was not litterally covered by clouds during that era.

MindBlow #3: "Skyward Sword tells the tale of a kingdom neighbouring Hyrule." Um, no, it doesn't.
"The World Map of Termina in Majora's Mask bears a striking resemblance to the World Map of Hyrule in ALTTP"
That's because Termina is an alternate reality of Hyrule. And ALttP Hyrule IS OoT/SS/LoZ/etc Hyrule. They're all the same.

MindBlow #4: "Very safe to assume that Majora's Mask and the Fused Shadow were created by the same magic-abusing evildoers." ...or that Nintendo likes to reuse ideas and build upon them, yet those ideas remain separate.

:D

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