Heroes of Mana noobish question.

[Noblewine]

I've been wandering if there is a way to tell what unit a monster or human belongs to? I love the game so far and I've gotten to the ninth chapter. I can't stop playing it though I take occasional breaks.

[Kassidy]

The units that you can summon as a player are not used by the computer. Also, the HP meter above each character and unit's head will be green for allies, red for enemies, and blue for third party allies.

I'm not quite sure if that's what you mean, but let me know if otherwise.

[Noblewine]

Thanks. So the computer doesn't use the same type of units available that you can use. That would probably explain why missil units didn't work very well against the dragons in chapter eight.

[Kassidy]

Oh, they work just fine against Dragons. Take a lot of Sahagin, and have Falcon and Qucas within 5 squares of as many of them as possible. Falcon increases Missile unit strength 30% and makes them always hit for Critical, Qucas increases all unit strength 50%... So they are doing double damage, pretty much.

Base attack is 20 for standard.
Attack for Critical is 25.
Add 80% on to that, you're now doing 45 damage, over double your standard attack.

This is where Leader Units really make the difference, and will increase your effectiveness greatly.

[Magus_Melchior]

What's really fun is taking advantage of the Sahagin's ability to swim. Only other swimmers, shoooters, and flyers can actually hit them, so if your opponent's army has few of those, you can snipe at them from the water.

Of course, if there's no water on the map, that plan is hosed.

[Noblewine]

Oh, they work just fine against Dragons. Take a lot of Sahagin, and have Falcon
and Qucas within 5 squares of as many of them as possible. Falcon increases Missile unit strength
30% and makes them always hit for Critical, Qucas increases all unit strength 50%... So they are
doing double damage, pretty much.

Base attack is 20 for standard.
Attack for Critical is 25.
Add 80% on to that, you're now doing 45 damage, over double your standard attack.

This is where Leader Units really make the difference, and will increase your effectiveness greatly.

I'll try that thanks.

What's really fun is taking advantage of the Sahagin's ability to swim.
Only other swimmers, shoooters, and flyers can actually hit them, so if your opponent's army
has few of those, you can snipe at them from the water.


Of course, if there's no water on the map, that plan is hosed.

Will molebears help because I tried that but it was a hassel getting them to explore the entire map
before Celestan sent the dragons in.

[Kassidy]

I only use Molebears to explore once I have a quiet period established. Wait until after you've defeated Celestan and you'll stand a better chance to explore.

[Magus_Melchior]

Depending on your situation, it doesn't always help to have the entire map known. Usually, if one non-flying creature approaches along certain routes, his amigos will approach using the same routes because of the borked pathfinding algorithm.

Never realized the offensive bonus Qucas gives. I'll have to try that, as shooters tend to be at an advantage in this game. Generally I send Yurchael with range and damage upgrades to scout, as he can then eliminate most enemies by sniping them.

[Noblewine]

I only use Molebears to explore once I have a quiet period established.
Wait until after you've defeated Celestan and you'll stand a better chance to explore.

thanks. I'll try that but won't the mission be over if you defeated Celestan or does it end after you slain that one monster? I forgot what it was called.

Depending on your situation, it doesn't always help to have the entire map known. Usually, if one non-flying creature approaches along certain routes, his amigos will approach using the same routes because of the borked pathfinding algorithm.

So basically don't explore the entire map because you might find a unit of dragons covered by the undiscovered parts of the map. Is it a good idea to focus first on collecting material or should you first prepare a unit to take care of the enemies you will discover early in the mission outside the palace walls?

[IrishLuiz]

I'm having a hell problem with this same battle. I cant sink that bloody ship of theirs....

[Kassidy]

I think we're still talking mission 09 here (I've kinda lost track, my brain's not with it). Here's the walkthrough I've done for that mission, if it's any help.

[WALK09] Mission 09

Location: Castle Valseng
Victory Conditions:
-Defeat all enemies
-Sink the Pedan Army Carrier
Loss Conditions:
-Roget must not die. Nightswan Ship must not be destroyed.
-Richard, Loki AND Valda must not die (all three dying)
Number of Main Characters: 3 (Roget required)
Starting Mineral: 11
Starting Fruit: 5

Your best bets are probably Qucas and Falcon or Gauser.

We have to move fast here so we can get things ready for the impending assault.
First off, get your Harvesting Base and 6 Rabites out, then send them West and
South through the archway. Send three after the Treant and the rest after the
Gaia there in the courtyard.

Turns out the enemy has brought a carrier, the Gulbatte, along with them, so
now your objective is to sink it.

Get building the Ground and Bow Unit Bases, and the Healing Home, and summon
three of each of your most powerful units. Send them to the South West corner
of the level, where the opening in the outer wall is. Valda and her soldier
should be capable to dealing with one dragon.

When the courthyard resources are exhausted, send your Rabites up the ramp to
the east, south, and then east out on to the battlements to find another Treant
(Hidden Item just south of it). Move the Nightswan to the anchor near this, and
start summonning more Sahagins.

At around this point, Celestan will make an appearance. With your units in the
South West corner you should be able to take him out, and also take out the
next Red Dragon that'll go after your nightswan with the Sahagins.

When the collection has finished, move the Nightswan South out of the castle,
and east between the two sets of walls surrounding it until you get to an
anchoring point near, but not at, the south eastern corner. Start making quick
work of the Gaia and Treant here (Item to the East of it). Congregate your
units here for the final showdown, coming soon, and create the Heavy Unit Base,
together with some Du'Cate.

Send a Ground Unit directly north of this current position to encounter a lone
Archer, then go further north and take it behind the lonely bush there to find
another hidden item.

As if we hadn't had enough visitors already, our old friend Olbex makes an
appearance with two Nevarlan soldiers. Your leaders will be able to take down
these guys in no time. All that's left then is the carrier. Careful though,
because it'll be churning out Ground Units like there's no tomorrow. Hence the
Du'Cate. The battle is quite simple from here, and once you've sunk the
Gulbatte, it's Mission Accomplished!




I think it still needs some editing, as I want to include in there the use of a Molebear instead of a Ground Unit to pick up the item behind the bush. But still, hopefully this'll be some help, I dunno.

I've got up to 11 written up, so let me know if any other help is needed.

[IrishLuiz]

Falcon and Qucas really worked!! I finished the mission in no sweat with them.

thx kassidy

[Kassidy]

No problem, mate.

[Magus_Melchior]

The enemy in chapter 9 will try to gather resources with Shadow Zeroes, IIRC (this is the one with the castle with two outer walls, right?). Picking them off can starve the enemy when he loses troops, and will prevent the enemy ship from spawning more when you attack it.

I do remember thinking "Gee, the enemy gets a special unit with a big attack, and all I get is this lousy scout."

So basically don't explore the entire map because you might find a unit of dragons covered by the undiscovered parts of the map. Is it a good idea to focus first on collecting material or should you first prepare a unit to take care of the enemies you will discover early in the mission outside the palace walls?

Well, I tend to play defensively, and scout conservatively (after getting massively ambushed in a later chapter). In any RTS, resource gathering is essential if it's permitted, as it allows you to have an advantage down the line in terms of structures and units. The other thing is, there's no shroud over the map, so you have a general idea of the lay of the land-- the only benefits exploring will give is the location of enemy units (which can spot you and attack before you're ready) and resource nodes (granted, this information is useful-- but you can "cheat" a bit and scout the entire map for these, and reset the game).

[Noblewine]

The enemy in chapter 9 will try to gather resources with Shadow Zeroes, IIRC (this is the one with the castle with two outer walls, right?). Picking them off can starve the enemy when he loses troops, and will prevent the enemy ship from spawning more when you attack it.

I do remember thinking "Gee, the enemy gets a special unit with a big attack, and all I get is this lousy scout."

So basically don't explore the entire map because you might find a unit of dragons covered by the undiscovered parts of the map. Is it a good idea to focus first on collecting material or should you first prepare a unit to take care of the enemies you will discover early in the mission outside the palace walls?

Well, I tend to play defensively, and scout conservatively (after getting massively ambushed in a later chapter). In any RTS, resource gathering is essential if it's permitted, as it allows you to have an advantage down the line in terms of structures and units. The other thing is, there's no shroud over the map, so you have a general idea of the lay of the land-- the only benefits exploring will give is the location of enemy units (which can spot you and attack before you're ready) and resource nodes (granted, this information is useful-- but you can "cheat" a bit and scout the entire map for these, and reset the game).

kk I finally advanced to the next chapter though the walls gave me a bit of a problem when it came to getting my units to the enemy in time before they did any real damage.